NavyGuns & CombatMedic – right on target. Nicodemus – for lack of a more cultured phrase, you’re a fucking idiot, taught by idiots, brought up by idiots, and brain dead from reading idiotic propaganda written by even bigger idiots than the OP.

One difference between Veterans like us and useless liberal FLOBS (Free-Loading Oxygen Breathers) like you is that we actually know the real threats to the United States, while you and others like you only believe what you’re told. Being a soldier or sailor means that world affairs and national security are a part of daily life, as learned through classified operations and knowledge that everyday nobodies like you aren’t privy to because you couldn’t handle knowing how dangerous the world really is.

America aggressive? My ass it is. The U.S. refrained for over 30 years of Muslim attacks on Americans and U.S. interests, and only after 9/11 (an overt act of war by any definition) did we respond in force. No WMD eh? Guess 500 tons of uranium yellowcake and all of Saddam’s chemical weapons doesn’t qualify, unless you believe he was making weedkiller for the desert. It was never just about WMD anyway – it was about taking the fight to the jihadis on their turf, not ours. For idiots who think it was about oil, that’s a big part, but not for you stupid cares. Considering that a good portion of the strategic raw materials needed by the U.S. aren’t found on U.S. soil, and are imported by ship, guess what ships run on to get those materials to us? Fuel oil. Without those materials, you’d be whining why you couldn’t get something you now take for granted. I guarantee also if they’d have killed your family or attacked your town, you’d be screaming for blood, as well as “where was our military?”

There are days when I really miss the Cold War – people like you are obviously not old enough to remember the constant threat of nuclear war to give people clarity on who the real bad guys are.

The other major difference between Veterans and people like you is that all of us who volunteered to join the military, regardless of sacrifice did it to defend the rights of all Americans, even morons like you, so that you can show just how ignorant, clueless, and gullible you really are when it comes to propaganda about world affairs.

It appears that every generation needs a good kick in the ass to learn hard lessons about the world – the only problem I see is that by the time clueless idiots like you learn it, there may be nothing left to save. But rest assured there will always be selfless people like us to save you when you start whining after the boogeyman comes knocking at your front door.

Then again, maybe not – you deserve a lesson in world reality.

For the record, I have no sympathy for those who whine about family separations either, having taken the oath myself 5 times, once during the Gulf War. I didn’t need liberal idiots like you to whine about me coming home instead of being away from my family, as it was my choice (as well as my wife, who was also Navy), to do so. Don’t you dare use any Veteran as an excuse for your yellow-bellied, liberal BS. If you haven’t done the time and served in the military, you have absolutely no right whatsoever to complain about those of us who’ve sacrificed and are still sacrificing, by our own choice.

Get a life.

U.S. Navy
Submarine Force ’81-’88
Pentagon ’91-’93
DoD – ’91-2000

Raven – you talk about liberal propaganda, in a comment that’s just dripping of actual propaganda.

“One difference between Veterans like us and useless liberal FLOBS (Free-Loading Oxygen Breathers) like you is that we actually know the real threats to the United States”

Do you understand how much this sounds like propaganda used by a typical military dictatorship to justify anything they do? You say that there are threats but you can’t say what they are (for security reasons) and whenever anyone complain about any of your actions you can just repeat “there are threats out there, you don’t understand!”

“There are days when I really miss the Cold War – people like you are obviously not old enough to remember the constant threat of nuclear war to give people clarity on who the real bad guys are.”

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Successful propaganda is often based in keeping people in fear of a bogeyman. You pretty much say so straight out – that during the Cold War people were afraid, so then they accepted the military rationalizations for whatever they wanted to do.

Maybe you are right about everything you say (doubtful), maybe there is a pressing need for U.S. military involvement in countries across the globe. But you should really understand that your justifications would still be typical propaganda, even if you were somehow correct.

Telling people “You need to be afraid. I can’t tell you what the danger is, but it’s out there and I know this – therefor you mustn’t question my actions” is never an appeal to logic or rational thinking. It’s just rhetoric to sway emotions and get people to think that you are right without giving them good reasons – so, propaganda.

You bringing up 9/11 in a comment about the Iraq war is even worse propaganda.

Saddam Hussein was not a mastermind behind the 9/11-attacks, but successful right-wing propaganda has planted that idea in a large percentage of the American people.

Your references to “Muslim attacks”, “taking the fight to the jihadists” et cetera? Pure fear-mongering, hate-mongering propaganda.

I happen to agree that Islam is dangerous. I also think that Christianity is dangerous. But just as I know that most Christians aren’t crazy, abortion-clinic bombing evangelicals, I also know that most Muslims aren’t plane-jacking, suicide-bombing jihadists.

“The Muslims” haven’t been attacking America. A small percentage of certain Muslim sects have a big grievance with the long-standing American military bases in the middle east, U.S. support for Israel’s policies against Palestine, et cetera.

Some of them have been attacking America or American troops because of this – true. But it hasn’t been 30 years of constant “Muslim attacks” against the US, and “Muslim countries” haven’t attacked American soil.

It has been terrorists, small groups of extremists (who often think that they aren’t attacking, only defending themselves – their leaders, like Osama bin Laden, use the same rhetoric as you do, saying “They are attacking us, we must strike back”). Going after any and all “Muslim countries” isn’t retaliation, it is revenge. And ill-aimed revenge at that.

“No WMD eh? Guess 500 tons of uranium yellowcake and all of Saddam’s chemical weapons doesn’t qualify”

Not really. I guess I’ve just been listening to “liberal propaganda” but I haven’t seen much evidence for any large quantities of actual, deployable weapons. Uranium yellowcake as a remnant from their old nuclear program, sure. Old chemical and biological weapons from the Iran-Iraq war, sure. Most of them degraded of course, but I guess that doesn’t matter? And I don’t remember the U.S. complaining much when Iraq used them against Iran, but I guess that doesn’t factor in to anything either?

Your point is that the United States, the country with the best arsenal of WMDs in the world, has the right and privilege of deciding when it’s fine and dandy for another country to have such weapons (like when they attack your enemies with them) and when they should be invaded for having remnants of a WMD program. Thanks, I feel safer now.

“It was never just about WMD anyway”

Well, that’s what Bush mostly talked about when he urged people to go to war with him. Maybe we non-soldiers weren’t “privileged” to the information about the real reasons?

“For idiots who think it was about oil, that’s a big part”

So you’re saying that you think America has the right to invade another country to take resources that you need? Do you grant other countries that right?

“But rest assured there will always be selfless people like us to save you when you start whining after the boogeyman comes knocking at your front door.”

Aw, yes, keep fear alive! Mustn’t question the military, not ever, then the evil men only they know the details about will get me!
Seriously, are you really the same person who complained about propaganda?

Anyway – I think it’s very nice of you to repeatedly state that only the military does a difference, that only you defend people, that all non-military are freeloaders, et cetera.

You express the typical “Well if you complain, maybe we won’t defend you against the enemy then!” but rarely do we see the same from the non-military people that you so despise. But I guess it would go something like this:

So, you think all non-soldiers are just freeloaders? Maybe the farmers will stop supplying food for your army canteens then. Maybe the scientists and engineers will stop developing new ways to protect yourself in the field then. Maybe the diplomats will stop trying to solve international disputes through non-violent means then, and just let you fight the whole world. Maybe the people working hard to secure trade agreements to get the resources your military needs should just stop and let you go out and take it by force instead. And so on… they are all just freeloaders anyway, right?

But you keep going with your attitude of “The people pointing guns at other nations are the only heroes!” and “The US has big guns so we have the right to do what we please” – sure, those attitudes is what makes the rest of the world hate you. Sure, that hate, coupled with America’s military actions, is what actually leads to terrorism. But you just keep telling yourself that all you do is good. Just keep believing the propaganda.

Spoken like a true, dumbdick.. Absolutely AMAZING you speak for the troops as if you are one of us? Fact being you are probably some Idiot with a college degree and nothing better to do than to run your mouth about something you have NO BUSINESS TALKING ABOUT..

@ Raven … thanks you for taking the time to write that up. However, I am not a US citizen, nor do I reside in the US. That should have been abundantly clear when I said that ‘… if the US ever invades my country …’ (sorry, too lazy to quote now).

This renders most of your arguments in regards to me, utterly useless. Making your cussing of me equally pointless and very representative of your level of literacy … well, below zero. Proving my point about the US military not creating ‘great thinkers’. I do love it when I’m right ;-)

I don’t like fighting with anyone, so let me just say that I never was ignorant to the crimes of Saddam. The images of before Gulf War 1 I still remember. The gas attacks, the pain and suffering in general. Was horrifying to say the least. He got what he deserved, WMDs or not. Was it right to have the whole world watch it on frigging YouTube? Probably not but maybe they will do the same when Bush gets hanged, which he should, but never will because your country protects its criminals better than its law-abiders.

My relation to the US is not minimal, have some really good friends there and having some German roots keeps me reminded what you did for the Germans in 1) WW2 and 2) Unfication of Germany.

It was maybe naive of me thinking that one can have a decent political discussion on a blog, with a bit of heat as spice but not as the foundation. Sorry for that as well.

I’ll be off to enjoy my life now. Its a great life by the way. My country is way off and luckily we have nothing that the US or equally aggressive nations want. Here your ‘real’ problems, you know … the self-created ones, are of no importance. Here the main tasks at hand are trying to work together as best as possible, care for the environment, create a solid foundation for future generations and ourselves.

@ CombatMedic … the previous ones were … gnh!, but your last post was good to read. Kudos for not resorting to cussing.

@ Zab : Well said.
@ Raven : you are talking about Jihadiz, you just don’t know the meaning of Jihad … its like i am talking to a kid to whom i have to clear a small small things :-)
YOU KNOW, KNEW, KNOWN that what you have done and what you are still doing is KILLING INNOCENTS FOR OIL & PRECIOUS MINERALS & THE WAY TO GO TO PAKISTAN & CHINA…

O MAN;. . . ACCEPT THE TRUTH

MAY BE THEY LOVED YOU BEFORE WAR BUT FROM NOW THEIR ” 7 GENERATIONS ” WILL HATE YOU BECAUSE YOU KILL THEIR FAMILIES.

May God Bless you, But God SHOULD NOT!!!!

The picture with the guy getting water with what appears to be a gun against his head is not what it seems. The image has been manipulated on multiple occasions to give the impression that Americans are forcing a gun to the mans head. If you look up the real picture, the gun is in the forground and is not even close to the man’s head. Just wanted to point out how the media can make an picture appear to be something that it is not.